God in the Economy

[Kyle Lane]

This past week we watched the federal government make a historic bailout of $85 billion to save AIG, a major financial services and insurance provider. Let me repeat that...$85 billion!! That's a lot of dough. Common sense and moral fiber suggests that "They could use that money to feed the poor both of this country, and of the poor", or something like that might have crossed your mind. Also keep in mind that the federal government used the American taxpayers' money to fund the bailout. CNN compared the usage of the funds to other uses for those funds; they mentioned they could purchase most African countries and some European countries. Wow. Should we, the church, be concerned about the decisions of the government and "point fingers", or should we just step aside, and take this as a lesson that we have to "be the change" that the world is so desperate for?

[Joseph Bruce Dougherty]

You are Definitely right. We must Consciously make an effort, through action, to bring the Kingdom to Earth. Our government, though built upon Christian Principals, has become one based upon an unhealthy tolerance- this "freedom" of sorts has lost it's luster. Americans, whom are very materially wealthy, Complain much more than African countries and other eastern countries that are dealing with genocide, famine, starvation, etc., the most of which we are hardly even scathed by. The American government must answer to the American people. American people want financial security, abundant food, low prices, and easy living. When these things are under threat or compromised the American people, who pay taxes, complain to the government. That government has to answer to the people.

So the Question is What is an American and who are "Americans"?

- Americans are greedy, devisive, lazy, forgetful, and they are easily swayed by bribes, and gifts. (These are the negatives)
- If we as "Christian men and Women" really believe that we are the salt and the light on and of the Earth than it is time we march on Washington. The Godly people, the followers of Jesus Christ the son of God are to preserve Good Culture. We must get involved in politics and be in it, in the system under God's will and removed from the corruptiveness and ulterior motives, thats when politics will change and have a Godly focus. We must show the "Americans" the "Life in Christ" and "The Life of Christ". When Americans come to the Heart of Christ then will the American government submit to God's will.

That's my 2 cents.

[Geri]

But often along the road to becoming a politician, the integrity of a follower will be tested, and they will end up being the American who is: "greedy, divisive, lazy, forgetful, and easily swayed by bribes and gifts." And even then, when the aspiring politicians have moments of failure, how can the church respond? How will the church respond? Will we judge and condemn them, expecting a perfect standard of towing some line? Or will we offer grace and a hand to help pick them up?
Compared with the historic church's handling of such things, how can we be different, and aspire to treat politicians, believers or not, as Christ would whilst encountering them?

Those are the questions running through my head on the subject....

[Kyle Lane]

That is a tough subject. Obviously, we should bring them truth, but gracefully, if that makes any sense. Or at least that's what I think. I truly believe that Bush or Carter, or all the other Christian presidents want to feed the poor of this country, and the world, but that's not what is going to elect them to office, and it definitely won't make congress happy.

[Kyle Lane]

You have some great points. After I started the discussion, I watched the market make a record-breaking 700 point jump from the day of the bailout of AIG, or whatever you want to call it. It brought some comfort to Americans, now they're more settled, but it still brings for a good discussion of God in the Economy.

[Geri]

Yes but He also cares about resources (which are often money) as far as being a good steward of them. Many Americans, who rely on credit cards to purchase things they do not need, or any other number of indicators, do not have a sense of stewardship. They have a sense of entitlement, thinking that they deserve what they have and more.
The loving way of Jesus is love to the point of being willing to lay down our very lives on behalf on another. If we love anyone that much, we would also be willing to lay down our possessions, positions, or anything, for the same cause of love. Now that is a tall order to reach (I know I am not there) but that is our standard, which is why we have grace.
I think Joseph makes a good point, as long as it is tempered with grace. I think his last two lines are true to a point, or would be in an ideal democracy where everyone's voice would be heard.
But above all I think it puts hope where it should be, in the restorative and transformational power of Christ. As far as where Jesus would be if He walked the Earth today, I am not sure, but He would probably not even be in the US. However, I do not mean to imply that our country is beyond His scope. As long as any person has breath, whether on Wall Street in NYC or in the worst LA slum, they are not past the point of finding hope in Christ. Our God is much bigger than the worst any person can throw at Him.

[Joseph Bruce Dougherty]

If Jesus came today, I would think that He would come to the U.S. You must remember that Jesus did teach a number of times at the Synagogue, even among the Pharisees- who wanted to kill him afterward. He was in the heat of Spiritual battle. Wherever there is a battle to be fought for His Kingdom, I believe He would be in the front lines leading it. Of Course, Jesus also went to the slums and sick places of society where the poor and sickened were rampant.

We have to get these thoughts out of our heads that Jesus wouldn't have gone someplace for some reason. He is a Righteous Barbarian. He wants all of us. It's the places in our hearts He is after, not the physical places.

We must get involved in every part of society: economics, politics, recreational activities, education, work places, military, medicine, etc. and put forth the Counter culture of the body of Christ for each of these. {Not anti-cultural} [Counter cultural]

[Kyle Lane]

I agree, but I was mainly using the Africa thing as a comparison to more easily display the point of the discussion, not as a form of solution. I am aware of the corrupt governments that some of the African countries and their people have to submit to. But why couldn't we use that 3% to feed the poor, or for at least part of it? I'd much rather pay my taxes with some kind of comfort level knowing that it would be used to help feed those who can't afford to feed themselves, and help get them back on their feet, as compared to saving a company that fell due to their own carelessness and lack of actuarial precaution.

Geri brings a good point that we need to glorify God with our finances, in every aspect. This is an act of worship.

[Joseph Bruce Dougherty]

Yes you are indeed able to replace words for words and meanings for meanings in everything. You can do it with the Declaration of independence. For example, when Thomas Jefferson drafted the D.O.I., Ben Franklin and John Adams had a hand in tweaking it. Because of there efforts and there specific language in that document it reads as it does today. "All men are created equal", All [white] men are created equal", "All [Nazis] are created equal", or "All men [are not equal]". you see its exactly the same as what you just did. I changed a couple words and the view, perception, meaning, etc. changed.
You wouldn't change a verse of the Bible would you?
Example: (Psalm 23) "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. He maketh me lie down..." or "[Allah] is my shepherd".
What you are considering is the fairness of the issue.
Is it fair that Christians can say that and take action for their convictions and not Islamic believers?
The Government of man is based on Tit for tat, or quid pro quo (fairness), NOT grace or mercy, JUSTICE ONLY.

God's economy is based on grace and Justice and upon love. God isn't Fair. I am so grateful he isn't.

Yes you are right it isn't fair. That is why the last two lines of my thoughts are so important.

[Kyle Lane]

I guess we weren't created to interpret these things, or figure it out for ourselves; we're just supposed to trust and love, both one another and God. It's crucial not to stray too far away from the point. Christ is the center, everything revolves around that truth. Whether it be our finances, our bodies, our actions, our faith, all of the above and more. Steve, you are so right in the sense that the government is not supposed to do it for us, while we continue to behave irresponsibly and do nothing for the community. We're all guilty of this. We're supposed to be the change, to love, to give hope, to be the shining light in the midst of this vast, unholy darkness. This is the reason for our being.

[Joseph Bruce Dougherty]

Awesome!